Author Topic: OMV Enigma  (Read 1599 times)

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Offline Emegra

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OMV Enigma
« on: March 10, 2013, 07:22:09 pm »
I have recently installed openmediavault to a test rig for evaluation purposes and got it up and running with the help of friends on this forum,

My problem is having got it installed and working the first thing I want to do is backup the configuration so if I screw up (which I inevitably will) I can restore back

I've attached 2 screenshots the first is a screenshot from the official OpenMediaVault website clearly showing a tab under " system" for backup/restore http://www.openmediavault.org/ however if you click on "screenshots" on that very same page you'll see system backup/restore on all the screenshots is mysteriosly not there.

The second screenshot shows my own Web GUI where it is also missing, yet i have a backup stored in my downloads folder that I took immediately after installation which suggests that "backup/restore was an option at that time,

Now it's probably me, any self respecting computer literate person will probably make perfect sense of that, but if the open source community want average users like myself to embrace open source don't you think they need to sort these things out and at least attempt to talk our language?


Graeme
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 07:26:54 pm by Emegra »
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Offline SeZo

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2013, 07:57:29 pm »
OK. This might be stating the obvious, but have you asked the question over at OMV?
One possibility is that the option was there on first install but later on it was removed during an update :-\

As your drive is only 10 gb, what stopping you from creating a full backup to an image with Clonezilla (or like) to an external drive.
And restoring it as and when required.

If you decide to go down the Clonezilla route just ask.

Online Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec)

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2013, 08:09:51 pm »
If you look at the last line in the main body of this:
http://blog.openmediavault.org/?p=603

it seems they've removed the backup/restore .. and people are waiting for it to be reimplemented.

Did you use the same version of OMV this time ? .. have you run an update ?

That said, it's only a backup of the configs .. so it wouldn't backup the wireless drivers etc. anyway.

As SeZo says, use a Clonezilla LiveCD, to make an image (or clone) of the 10GB HDD

or even better use this:
http://redobackup.org/
Which I now use nearly exclusively instead of clonezilla :) .. it's more user friendly (GUI).

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« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 08:15:29 pm by Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec) »
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Offline Emegra

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2013, 08:39:51 pm »
Quote
OK. This might be stating the obvious, but have you asked the question over at OMV?

Yes but not had an answer yet, although to be fair it wasn't posted all that long ago

Quote
As your drive is only 10 gb, what stopping you from creating a full backup to an image with Clonezilla (or like) to an external drive.
And restoring it as and when required.

All due respect SeZ o but that's a workaround, I shouldn't have to do that  the point is the backup/restore option should be there and it should work,  not everyone has heard of Clonezille let alone what it does or how to use it, also the screenshots on the official website show an obvious contradiction

Quote
it seems they've removed the backup/restore .. and people are waiting for it to be reimplemented.

well therein lies the answer  :)

Quote
Did you use the same version of OMV this time ? .. have you run an update ?

I'm sure I did run an update and it could well be the reason backup/install is now missing

Quote
That said, it's only a backup of the configs .. so it wouldn't backup the wireless drivers etc. anyway.

Something else I didn't know, but it was mainly user, groups, permission settings i was mainly concerned about (something I dont think I'll ever understand ) :)


The fact that Clonezilla can solve the problem doesn't negate the fact that there is an obvious issue with the software and it's these little problems that drive people  towards proprietary solutions, because if this was proprietary it would be unacceptable,that's the point I'm trying to make

I understand that this is free to use software and I have no right to be critical of it and to be be honest I accept that, it's just frustrating that's all  :)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 09:00:22 pm by Emegra »
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Online Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec)

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2013, 09:12:14 pm »
Quote
but that's a workaround

I'm not sure I agree with that .. a Clonezilla or Redo backup of the 10GB drive would likely be a "better" option to just having the configs, particularly now you've stepped outside the default configuration with wireless ;)

Also, would you rather they'd left it in if it was causing problems (possibly problems that could crash the system, or creating backups people trusted but then didn't work) ? .. or would you rather they pull it till it's fixed, leaving you the option to look elsewhere for a backup solution ?

Quote
if this was proprietary it would be unacceptable

Microsoft have had to do exactly the same thing with some updates that were killing peoples PC's .. I vaguely remember a Windows update that sent any laptops with AMD CPU's into a constant reboot loop (XP service pack 3 ?) .. it was pulled until fixed, and there WILL have been others .. this is nothing to do with open Vs closed source, or free Vs commercial .. it just makes sense.

And Oracle Java is still out there, complete with "unacceptable" MAJOR security flaws ;)

Both the above examples are a bit more drastic than just the pulling of a single "feature" that really has no impact on the main function of the software.

There's nothing new here, ALL complex software has "issues" (bugs) it's just a matter of how quickly they are recognised and dealt with ..  at least OMV seem to have taken steps to protect your NAS until they can add the function back in working order :)



[EDIT]

After re-reading this response ..

If it came across as me "having a go", I apologise, it wasn't meant that way :)

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« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 09:50:55 pm by Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec) »
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Offline Emegra

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2013, 09:54:34 pm »
Quote
I'm not sure I agree with that .. a Clonezilla or Redo backup of the 10GB drive would likely be a "better" option to just having the configs.

i can't disagree with that Mark, you're absolutely right,  but you seem to be missing my point, you understand that and I understand that (only because you and SeZo have pointed it out to me) but the average user like myself doesn't understand that, he/she/we expect the software to do what it says on the tin and if it doesn't we don't know what to do, I looked at the main OMV website and I saw nothing saying in big red writing  " a very important part of this program has been removed due to it causing serious stability issues etc etc etc".

Quote
Also, would you rather they'd left it in if it was causing problems (possibly problems that could crash the system) ? .. or would you rather they pull it till it's fixed ?

I would rather they pulled it till it was fixed, but it would be nice if they made some effort to inform users on their main website for all to see, rather than on some obscure foreign language blog

Quote
Microsoft have had to do exactly the same thing with some updates that were killing peoples PC's .. I vaguely remember a Windows update that sent any laptops with AMD CPU's into a constant reboot cycle .. it was pulled until fixed, and there WILL have been others ..

I wonder how many irate phone calls Microsoft had over that one, but at least they had someone to call.

Quote
this is nothing to do with open Vs closed source, or free Vs commercial .. it just makes sense.

Please don't think of me as anti open source , in fact you would be hard pushed to find a more anti closed person than me, but that doesn't mean that open source can't do better


Graeme

« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 09:56:16 pm by Emegra »
If you can keep your head while all around are losing theirs, then you're not quite grasping the situation

Offline Emegra

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2013, 10:00:19 pm »
Quote
After re-reading this response ..

If it came across as me "having a go", I apologise, it wasn't meant that way

Not at all, besides  i love an argument, and we don't have to agree to be friends :)
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Online Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec)

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2013, 10:04:16 pm »
I'd agree maybe they could have been clearer on their website .. that said, it's not something that stops the software from doing its job .. and we have no idea how long ago or why they've pulled it :)

I also figure if this is really a "one man band" .. he's probably got other more important things on his mind .. it is after all not a "critical" issue.

Quote
Not at all, besides  i love an argument, and we don't have to agree to be friends :)

Oh, we'll get on famously then ;)
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Online Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec)

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2013, 10:07:32 pm »
Quote
I wonder how many irate phone calls Microsoft had over that one, but at least they had someone to call.

IIRC, calling them made no difference, it was weeks before they released any info on how to break the reboot loop and fix the issue .. I'm pretty sure that was first worked out by someone else rather than Microsoft, who just left people hanging.

Nor do I remember M$ making a big deal about it on their website .. they just quietly pulled the service pack .. still, I made a killing from that little fiasco ;)

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« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 10:16:10 pm by Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec) »
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Offline SeZo

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2013, 10:18:54 pm »
Quote
All due respect SeZ o but that's a workaround, I shouldn't have to do that  the point is the backup/restore option should be there and it should work,

That might seem that way but I would say that you should do a full size image backup too when you still got a working system.
Like Mark said, as soon as you stray from the appliance mode (default install) you are running a chance that some innocent update could bork your precous.
As an example I use Clonezilla to back  up my Ubuntu server before every LTS upgrade. Luckily the upgrades went OK every time since first install of 8.04. My install resides on a 6.4Gib partition now but it started out with that size of drive which died couple years ago.

Online Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec)

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2013, 10:24:06 pm »
"bork your precious" .. Heh .. I like it :)
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Offline Emegra

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2013, 10:25:37 pm »
Quote
I'd agree maybe they could have been clearer on their website .. that said, it's not something that stops the software from doing its job ..

Can't argue with that


Quote
and we have no idea how long ago or why they've pulled it

That's the problem isn't it. because I can't now experiment, with this program (which as you well know I've been trying to do do for over a week now), unless i take the Clonezilla /redo option which not everyone would know or want to do



Quote
Oh, we'll get on famously then

We have so far :)

« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 09:36:50 pm by Emegra »
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Offline Emegra

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2013, 10:30:20 pm »
Quote
That might seem that way but I would say that you should do a full size image backup too when you still got a working system.
Like Mark said, as soon as you stray from the appliance mode (default install) you are running a chance that some innocent update could bork your precous.
As an example I use Clonezilla to back  up my Ubuntu server before every LTS upgrade. Luckily the upgrades went OK every time since first install of 8.04. My install resides on a 6.4Gib partition now but it started out with that size of drive which died couple years ago.

Oddly enough i watched the Linux Action Show last week which had a feature on Clonezilla and it's my intention to do just what you suggest

Thank you :)


Graeme
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Online Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec)

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2013, 10:47:59 pm »
I'd still recommend Redo Backup & Recovery over Clonezilla .. particularly for a first time user and if you're happier with a "proper" GUI rather than ncurses (?).

I'm not knocking Clonezilla, which is also an amazing tool.
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Offline SeZo

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Re: OMV Enigma
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2013, 10:49:45 pm »
I have not heard of Redo before and might try it sometime, but have grown rather fond with Clonezilla being able to load itself into memory and then I can remove the live media. ;)

 


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