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The Forums => Blogs => Topic started by: arashium on April 09, 2013, 06:17:24 pm

Title: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: arashium on April 09, 2013, 06:17:24 pm
Hi
I have just registered here.
This is a video I created to explain why linux users tend to command line.
All comments are welcome.
If sound tracks are not clear, use English caption of this video.
Regards
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/IqaryB7SxJU
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec) on April 09, 2013, 07:04:58 pm
Here it is with the video inserted with the tags below.
Code: [Select]
[center][flash=640,400]http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/IqaryB7SxJU[/flash][/center]

http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/IqaryB7SxJU
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Emegra on April 09, 2013, 09:23:39 pm
Beautifully made video :)
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Toonman on April 12, 2013, 03:00:32 pm
Great video, thanks but, I can do all of that from a gui as well.  ;)

Coming from Atari I have always been lazy regarding command line.  I did use MS dos a on a few occasions with Windows.  My first Linux distro was Kate and from that point i have only used gui except when prompted by Mark or others on this site.

Once again Thank you. :)
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Emegra on April 12, 2013, 03:18:36 pm
I have to agree with toonman here but if that video demonstrates anything it's just how powerful the command line can be in the hands of someone who understands the language, personally i would never be able to use the command line to that level although I am trying to learn and i have learned some basic commands, because i admire those who can use it.

For the average PC user like myself the command line is really a non starter and if Linux in general is to gain more widespread adoption good and intuitive gui's are imperative and something I think Linux is still lagging behind Windows although I think the gap is closing



Graeme

Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec) on April 12, 2013, 04:18:30 pm
I think you missed Toonmans point.

What I think he was saying was most tasks in Linux CAN be done from the GUI.

The reason I give CLI instructions on this forum is because

a) they're easier to type

b) they leave less (no) room for user interpretation.

c) they can be copy/pasted

d) they often return useful info if something goes wrong

NOT because it can only be done from the command line.

The point to the video is that the Linux command line is uber-powerful, and can be quicker/easier than going through a ton of mouse clicks :)

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Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Emegra on April 12, 2013, 05:51:47 pm
Quote
What I think he was saying was most tasks in Linux CAN be done from the GUI.

I didn't disagree with that Mark, I was only trying to say that arashium's video shows just how powerful the command line could be, but that only applies to those who not only know how to write instructions in the terminal but can interprete the answers as well which most of us can't.

I understand your reasons for giving instructions in the terminal and it makes perfect sense, the only problem is that sometimes I feel like all I'm learning is how to copy and paste into a terminal in other words although you always solve the problem I rarely know how and I mean no disrespect when I say that :)


Graeme
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec) on April 12, 2013, 06:14:55 pm
Quote
I was only trying to say that arashium's video shows just how powerful the command line could be, but that only applies to those who not only know how to write instructions in the terminal but can interprete the answers as well which most of us can't.

Oh sure, there's a learning curve which can appear steep .. but I think the point of the video is to say "look it's worth it, and the CLI isn't to be feared" ;)

Quote
the only problem is that sometimes I feel like all I'm learning is how to copy and paste into a terminal

There's nothing stopping you using the man pages to try understand what a given command is doing .. that's how I learned :)
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: arashium on April 14, 2013, 04:15:31 pm
Well,
let me explain somethings
first of all i have to say here i do not compare GUI with command-line. for people who have come from windows background, command-line of Linux reminds them CMD of windows. here i wanted to say that in Linux command-line is enough to do anything. of course i am running Ubuntu desktop and if i can do anything with GUI easier, definitely i would use GUI. but sometimes i need to cascade commands to run them on an HTML file to grab some Urls. or i want to download 100 direct links and check their md5 too. when loop of commands or even multiple commands have to be  are run, using command-line can be much easier. so do not compare single commands with GUI.
this video was not to teach anything to the professional Linux users, but to people who are reluctant to use Linux just because of command-line.
in addition most of video focused on the other aspects of command-line. for example, command line is more standard for all distributions, easily documented, easily programmed, etc.
my experience: GUI, command-line, command-line + GUI  :)
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec) on April 14, 2013, 04:29:54 pm
Quote
for people who have come from windows background, command-line of Linux reminds them CMD of windows

Heh .. most Windows users have no idea what cmd or the powershell is, and just get a strange blank look on their face when looking at a terminal prompt :)
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Emegra on April 14, 2013, 04:36:09 pm
I can't make up my mind whether that video makes me more frightened or less frightened of the command line but it was definitely impressive :)
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: GEARHEAD_TI on April 15, 2013, 10:00:28 am
Wow, I have been using linux since 2004 and did not even think that ffmpeg could record the screen via console....this changes everything!!!
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: remnia on May 25, 2013, 02:48:44 pm
even though command line is good for you programmer guys it can not be useful for normal users at all because it sucks
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec) on May 25, 2013, 02:54:17 pm
Hi remnia, and welcome to the forum :)

I'm not a programmer, but I use the command line a lot .. simply because it's quicker (for some tasks) than going through menus and swapping windows, etc. ???

There are plenty of non-programmers that use the shell, and no doubt some programmers that can't/don't.

You don't "have" to use it, but it's there if you "choose" to.



It's also a LOT easier to help out on forums by giving the solution as commands.

Here's a little experiment for you .. you type instructions to move a file called "start.txt" from your desktop to your home folder, and rename it to "done.txt" using the GUI .. then compare your response to this:
Code: [Select]
mv ~/Desktop/start.txt ~/done.txt
I'm betting your instructions are MUCH longer and harder to type .. on top of that, you can copy/paste mine .. still convinced it sucks ? ;)

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Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: GEARHEAD_TI on May 25, 2013, 10:41:38 pm
I am  a programmer (we prefer developer) and I spend at most 10% of my time in console. Most of the time we use tools like Eclipse and other build tools.

Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: colorend on May 27, 2013, 08:41:42 pm
That was was both entertaining and informative. It should also be used to show off the capabilities of command-line.
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: zetra on June 01, 2013, 11:16:47 am
I hate it to see people are against command-line in fanatic way.
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec) on June 01, 2013, 12:40:13 pm
Hi zetra, and welcome to the forum :)
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: SeZo on June 01, 2013, 01:49:56 pm
I hate it to see people are against command-line in fanatic way.

I think it is more likely that they are scared from the command line. ;)
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Emegra on June 01, 2013, 02:39:18 pm
Quote
I think it is more likely that they are scared from the command line.

I'm scared of it as well but I can appreciate it's power, just wish I had the brains to use it :)
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec) on June 02, 2013, 12:43:09 am
I can't understand why people are quite happy to explore parts of their OS by GUI, yet immediately become "scared" to do the same in the CLI .. you can just as easily screw your system either way .. but once you understand a handful of commands for the CLI (and how to understand the documentation for what you don't know) you may find fixing things a little easier ;)
(oddly, the CLI tends to be better documented .. once you learn how to read it)

Sure, you'll make mistakes (hopefully not big ones) .. but isn't that the way we learn .. and that equally applies to the GUI.

I found the easiest way to pick up the command line was every time you see a command given on a forum that you don't understand .. use the man pages to try to work it out .. some of it eventually sinks in ;)

So if you see say
Code: [Select]
dpkg -l | grep flash

You'd look at:-
Code: [Select]
man dpkg
and see what the "-l" option does.

"|" means pipe (redirect) the output to the next command .. which is "grep" .. so then look at:-
Code: [Select]
man grep
to see what it's going to do with the output from "dpkg -l"

and you'll find that:-

"dpkg -l" will list the current install status of ALL packages you have installed, but it would be a long list  .. so instead of printing it ALL to screen, the output was piped (|) to the "grep" command which will search that output for all lines containing the string "flash" which are then printed to  screen.

So whoever wrote the command was looking for the current installation status of all packages containing the string "flash" .. or put another way, what "flash" packages you have installed.



Once you get your head round how to understand the man pages, it all starts to fall into place pretty quickly.



FYI, you can exit a man page and return to a normal $ prompt by hitting the "Q" key.



Here endeth the lesson for today :)

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Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Emegra on April 14, 2015, 11:18:30 am
Quote
if Linux in general is to gain more widespread adoption good and intuitive gui's are imperative

I would agree with that but there's no reason we can't have both for those who want it and in that regard Linux is way ahead of Windows



Graeme
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: jamieb158 on April 15, 2015, 07:31:54 am
When I used windows I would often use a dos box to run commands, file management etc us far easier and faster from the command line. In Linux the "average user" could happily run without ever opening a terminal, the likes if zorin have done an outstanding job of that. When I help friends convert I always use zorin full image, one of my colleagues is still running zorin 6 having never needed to open a terminal some 2 years down the line.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Mad Penguin on April 15, 2015, 09:30:25 am
$0.02
Consider something I use in various forms on a regular basis; "show me the top 10 hitting IP's on the forum"
Code: [Select]
cat linuxforum.access_log|cut -f1 -d" "|sort|uniq -c|sort -rn|head
It's something an admin familiar with bash scripting will just "know" and be able to type / modify as suits in around 10 seconds. To guess that this might be needed, and moreover finding a way to implement this as a flexible option in a GUI - that would be something else. Or alternatively; "show me the number of log entries in all log files over 20M in size";
Code: [Select]
find . -size +20M -exec wc -l {} \;
GUI .vs. CLI is the difference between trying to talk to the computer in a foreign language using a dictionary, .vs. speaking the computer's native tongue. The former is fine if you're a tourist, but the latter is really needed if you live there .. :)
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: videobruce on March 06, 2016, 03:07:55 pm
Quote
For the average PC user like myself the command line is really a non starter and if Linux in general is to gain more widespread adoption good and intuitive gui's are imperative and something I think Linux is still lagging behind Windows although I think the gap is closing
I couldn't agree with that more.

I'm not anti-command line. There is a place, but to use it for tasks that have been available in GUI form for decades (literally) is very dated thinking.
Title: Re: Why Linux Command-Line?
Post by: Mark Greaves (PCNetSpec) on March 06, 2016, 04:38:23 pm
I'm not anti-command line. There is a place, but to use it for tasks that have been available in GUI form for decades (literally) is very dated thinking.

I have a couple of problems with that statement...

a) What if it's easier/faster to achieve my goal at the command line .. is it still "dated thinking" to not use the slower/harder GUI front end, or is it "common sense" to learn/utilise the best method to get the job done ?

b) (and I think this is what you mean) Providing help on a forum it's MUCH easier to type up command line instructions, and MUCH easier for the person getting the help to give a concise response via copy/pasting the terminal output.
(it also leaves little room for misunderstanding)

Try typing full GUI instructions to simply copy a file from one place to another .. it's going to take a paragraph compared to:
Code: [Select]
cp /file/to/be/copied /place/to/put/it/

Command line instruction leave no room for "interpretation" issues .. "go into your menus and click the media player icon" is not as clear as .. run:
Code: [Select]
vlc
(for all I know he has more than one media player)

A GUI application gives little in the way of feedback .. a misbehaving GUI app is more likely to fail silently, whereas attempting to run it from the command line nearly always returns useful information on *where/why* it failed, this output is generally invaluable in finding a solution.

Command line instruction can be copy/pasted into the terminal .. and the output copy/pasted back to the forum.
(try doing that with point and click instructions)

My point is, use the best tool for the job .. where the command line is the best tool why use an often inferior GUI front end that makes things unnecessarily more difficult ?
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