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1
General Discussion / Re: i have issues in updating a mx-linux system
« Last Post by Keith on January 26, 2022, 06:45:42 pm »
David 

Excuse my ignorance!  Thanks for correcting me. 

Keith
2
General Discussion / Re: i have issues in updating a mx-linux system
« Last Post by DavidMcCann on January 26, 2022, 05:10:14 pm »
Not being a Debian user or familiar with apt, I can't offer direct help, but this page may be useful:
https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/install-update/manual-setup-vivaldi-linux-repositories/

@ Keith — you've confused arch (architecture) with Arch!
3
General Discussion / Re: i have issues in updating a mx-linux system
« Last Post by Keith on January 26, 2022, 03:22:47 pm »
Your output does say that i386 architecture is not supported and it seems that "VIVALDI does not exist in the arch linux official repo (pacman) but it does exist unofficial arch repo ".  Have a look at https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/52257/vivaldi-does-not-exist-in-arch-linux-official-repo-pacman-but-it-does-in-unofficial-arch-repo-aur for more information.

Keith
4
General Discussion / Re: Boot Times & Run Times
« Last Post by steve57 on January 26, 2022, 12:28:56 pm »
Thank you, very well written and informative, but this bit probably sums it up

In terms of 'faster once installed', then if it's a modern system

In a lot of cases it probably isn't a modern system. I'm aware that some people are running Linux on pretty high spec machines, but for a lot of us we're using Linux simply in an effort to keep something old functioning. I have two laptops running Linux, both with the same spec, and both date from 2009. I'm running Manjaro on one and MX on the other, and I'm happy with both.

This may help:

https://www.unbxtech.com/2019/03/pcie-sata-usb-interfaces-explained.html

Another interesting article, although I notice that, as is often the case, there's no mention of the the typical life expectancy of an SSD compared to a HDD. I don't know if things have improved recently, but the last time I looked into it the lifespan of an SSD was abysmal.

Well at least I managed to generate some discussion and interesting feedback, which was my original intention.

Thank you
5
General Discussion / i have issues in updating a mx-linux system
« Last Post by rincon on January 26, 2022, 12:07:27 am »
hi there - good day dear experts

i have issues in updating a mx-linux system

Code: [Select]
u
Passwort:
[email protected]:/home/martin# apt list --upgradable
Auflistung... Fertig
bind9-host/oldstable 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u6 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u5]
djvulibre-bin/oldstable 3.5.27.1-10+deb10u1 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 3.5.27.1-10]
dnsutils/oldstable 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u6 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u5]
firefox/mx 96.0.1~mozillabinaries-1mx19+1 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 93.0~mozillabinaries-1mx19+1]
ghostscript-x/oldstable 9.27~dfsg-2+deb10u5 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 9.27~dfsg-2+deb10u4]
ghostscript/oldstable 9.27~dfsg-2+deb10u5 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 9.27~dfsg-2+deb10u4]
gir1.2-javascriptcoregtk-4.0/oldstable 2.34.3-1~deb10u1 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 2.32.4-1~deb10u1]
gir1.2-webkit2-4.0/oldstable 2.34.3-1~deb10u1 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 2.32.4-1~deb10u1]
libbind9-161/oldstable 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u6 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u5]
libdjvulibre-text/oldstable,oldstable 3.5.27.1-10+deb10u1 all [aktualisierbar von: 3.5.27.1-10]
libdjvulibre21/oldstable 3.5.27.1-10+deb10u1 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 3.5.27.1-10]
libdns-export1104/oldstable 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u6 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u5]
libdns1104/oldstable 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u6 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u5]
libgs9-common/oldstable,oldstable 9.27~dfsg-2+deb10u5 all [aktualisierbar von: 9.27~dfsg-2+deb10u4]
libgs9/oldstable 9.27~dfsg-2+deb10u5 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 9.27~dfsg-2+deb10u4]
libhttp-parser2.8/oldstable-updates 2.8.1-1+deb10u2 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 2.8.1-1+deb10u1]
libicu63/oldstable 63.1-6+deb10u2 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 63.1-6+deb10u1]
libirs161/oldstable 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u6 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u5]
libisc-export1100/oldstable 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u6 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u5]
libisc1100/oldstable 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u6 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u5]
libisccc161/oldstable 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u6 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u5]
libisccfg163/oldstable 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u6 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u5]
libjavascriptcoregtk-4.0-18/oldstable 2.34.3-1~deb10u1 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 2.32.4-1~deb10u1]
liblwres161/oldstable 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u6 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 1:9.11.5.P4+dfsg-5.1+deb10u5]
libnss3/oldstable 2:3.42.1-1+deb10u4 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 2:3.42.1-1+deb10u3]
libpq5/oldstable 11.14-0+deb10u1 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 11.13-0+deb10u1]
libsmbclient/oldstable 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u2 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u1]
libtiff-tools/oldstable 4.1.0+git191117-2~deb10u3 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 4.1.0+git191117-2~deb10u2]
libtiff5/oldstable 4.1.0+git191117-2~deb10u3 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 4.1.0+git191117-2~deb10u2]
libwbclient0/oldstable 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u2 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u1]
libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37/oldstable 2.34.3-1~deb10u1 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 2.32.4-1~deb10u1]
linux-kbuild-5.10/mx 5.10.92-1~mx19+1 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 5.10.70-1~mx19+1]
linux-libc-dev/mx 5.15.5-1~mx19+1 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 5.14.12-1~mx19+1]
lo-main-helper/mx,mx 21.08.8mx19 all [aktualisierbar von: 21.08.5mx19]
mx-conky-data/mx,mx 20211226 all [aktualisierbar von: 20210301mx21]
mx-datetime/mx 21.11 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 21.9]
mx-live-usb-maker/mx 22.1.01 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 21.7]
mx-packageinstaller-pkglist/mx,mx 21.08.8mx19 all [aktualisierbar von: 21.08.5mx19]
mx-repo-list/mx,mx 21.12.02 all [aktualisierbar von: 21.7]
mx-tools/mx 21.11 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 21.8.02]
mx-user/mx 21.12 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 21.5]
mx-welcome-data/mx,mx 21.10.02mx19 all [aktualisierbar von: 20.10.02]
mx-welcome/mx 22.01.02 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 20.07.01]
openjdk-11-jre-headless/oldstable 11.0.14+9-1~deb10u1 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 11.0.12+7-2~deb10u1]
openjdk-11-jre/oldstable 11.0.14+9-1~deb10u1 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 11.0.12+7-2~deb10u1]
python-samba/oldstable 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u2 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u1]
python3-lxml/oldstable 4.3.2-1+deb10u4 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 4.3.2-1+deb10u3]
python3-pil/oldstable 5.4.1-2+deb10u3 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 5.4.1-2+deb10u2]
samba-common-bin/oldstable 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u2 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u1]
samba-common/oldstable,oldstable 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u2 all [aktualisierbar von: 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u1]
samba-libs/oldstable 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u2 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u1]
samba/oldstable 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u2 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u1]
smbclient/oldstable 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u2 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u1]
smxi-inxi-antix/mx,mx 0.4.22 all [aktualisierbar von: 0.4.21mx19+1]
vivaldi-stable/stable 5.0.2497.48-1 amd64 [aktualisierbar von: 4.3.2439.56-1]
[email protected]:/home/martin# sudo apt update
Holen:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease [51,9 kB]
Holen:2 http://ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de/mxlinux/packages/mx/repo buster InRelease [19,9 kB]
OK:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease                                           
Ign:4 http://repo.vivaldi.com/stable/deb stable InRelease
Holen:5 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates InRelease [65,4 kB]
OK:6 http://repo.vivaldi.com/stable/deb stable Release
Holen:7 http://ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de/mxlinux/packages/mx/repo buster/main amd64 Packages [443 kB]
Holen:9 http://ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de/mxlinux/packages/mx/repo buster/main i386 Packages [436 kB]
Holen:10 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main amd64 Packages [313 kB]
Holen:11 http://ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de/mxlinux/packages/mx/repo buster/main amd64 Contents (deb) [3.366 kB]
Holen:12 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main i386 Packages [312 kB]         
Holen:13 http://deb.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main Translation-en [169 kB]
Holen:14 http://ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de/mxlinux/packages/mx/repo buster/main i386 Contents (deb) [3.356 kB]
Es wurden 8.532 kB in 8 s geholt (1.127 kB/s).                                                                           
Paketlisten werden gelesen... Fertig
Abhängigkeitsbaum wird aufgebaut.       
Statusinformationen werden eingelesen.... Fertig
Aktualisierung für 59 Pakete verfügbar. Führen Sie »apt list --upgradable« aus, um sie anzuzeigen.
N: Das Laden der konfigurierten Datei »main/binary-i386/Packages« wird übersprungen, da das Depot »http://repo.vivaldi.com/stable/deb stable InRelease« die Architektur »i386« nicht unterstützt.
[email protected]:/home/martin#



well - dear Keith - i guess that i need to rename the Vivaldi-sources


hmm - from
deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/stable/deb stable

to

deb [arch=amd64] http://repo.vivaldi.com/stable/deb stable

or so...!?
6
General Discussion / Re: Boot Times & Run Times
« Last Post by Mad Penguin on January 25, 2022, 11:24:31 pm »
So .. there are a couple of aspects to this which skew the figures back and forth a little. Overall boot speed is a combination of latency (aka seek time) and throughput. When a system boots, it tends to read from a number of different areas of the disk, which means on a HDD the heads need to move quite a bit, so latency becomes quite important relative to the sequential read speed. So where USB drives potentially lose out on throughput, assuming the storage is flash based, they tend to catch back up again on low seek latency.

Actually getting 60Mb on a USB2 would be pretty good going, I've had an old Mac here running on an external SSD via USB2 and the best it sees is around 35Mb/sec (historically this feels about right for Linux too). As for USB3, I looked at the high throughput speeds and was very surprised to find I couldn't get anywhere near this, specifically on a Raspberry Pi 400. (top-end seems to be more like 250Mb/sec) I'm not certain, but from what I can see there are two USB3 specs, 3.0 and 3.1. It "seems" that 3.0 actually delivers ~ 250Mb/sec and you need 3.1 to get any closer to the published maximums .. but my takeaway was generally "avoid mass-storage on USB" ..

So .. HDD at 100Mb/sec with 5ms seek time vs USB flash at 35Mb/sec with 0.2ms seek time, who boots faster? I guess it depends on the particular install, desktop environment etc etc .. but for a desktop, I'd probably lean towards the USB - although I'm not sure there would be that much in it.

In terms of 'faster once installed', then if it's a modern system, and assuming that system has onboard NVMe M.2 type storage (which I think is pretty standard) then seek times will be quicker (not sure how much), but the throughput is indeed going to be a lot faster. The sequential read speed on my machine is ~ 3000Mb/sec, which would make it ~ 100x faster than a USB2 flash. It's not going to boot 100x faster because the difference in latency isn't going to be anything like that, but I would expect it to be significantly quicker.
8
General Discussion / Re: Boot Times & Run Times
« Last Post by steve57 on January 25, 2022, 06:33:55 pm »
Maybe the “how much faster a system will be once installed to a hard drive” quote goes back a few years to when we had to use CD or DVD to run a live distro?

Nope, the comments I've seen have all been fairly recent. The comment that a hard drive is 10 to 15 times faster (which I thought was a ludicrous claim incidentally) was certainly within last 6 months.
9
Linux Support / Re: Keyboard and mouse problems
« Last Post by Keith on January 23, 2022, 11:30:56 pm »
Hi Mike.

I'm glad that you are pleased with your new system - and didn't have to buy new PSU. 
We look forward with interest to hear the outcome of your mouse experiment.

Keith
10
General Discussion / Re: Boot Times & Run Times
« Last Post by Brian000 on January 23, 2022, 09:04:18 pm »
Hi,

That's an interesting thought..............and I'd agree with your findings - at least based on my usage, I get similar performance (at least to login).... Although I always caveat that I'm not a heavy desktop user (I don't install/start a GUI if I don't need it).

Considering my own (old) hardware - I certainly find that CD and DVD is noticeably slower than either USB or HDD. For a few years, I actually installed that O/S onto a USB3.0 (600MB/s) which was plugged into a USB2.0 port (being only 60MB/s). This had minimal performance loss when compared against my standard 5400RPM HDD (100MB/s) installation. At present I use a SSD (530MB/s) which is plugged into the same old SATA2 port (being only 300MB/s)...   so based on that, it would appear that my SSD is by far my best option - but in reality, it is all very insignificant.
(I'm unsure if those figures are correct, I grabbed them from the internet solely for this post!)

It's probably worth considering that many of the boot processes are not reading from disk, but they are initialising hardware and negotiating network, etc - which may explain why "time to boot" is pretty consistent...
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