Just born into the Linux community.......blimey! which OS to choose?

General Discussion
21

I did say the following in my first post:

That said, most "new" Linux users seem to have the least amount of transitional pain if they (and this really hurts to actually put to words) install Ubuntu or one of it's offshoots like mint.
What first put me off from Ubuntu is it doesn't like to follow standards that every other distro does, and it never has. IMHO, they started trying to segregate themselves from the rest of the Linux community the day after they decided what to call their new distro. However, I do give credit where it's due in stating that most users coming from Windows use Ubuntu. However, I think a lot of that is just because people tell them "most users coming from Windows use Ubuntu" without giving any other real alternatives - and I do see Fedora as a real alternative. Yes, you have to configure it right, and yes, there are GUI tools to do a lot of it, it's just faster to do so on the CLI and there are step by step instructions for doing so - the exact same could be said about Ubuntu - most *nix tutorials direct you to the CLI no matter the distro. There's also a HUGE user community, just like Ubuntu has. There's also far better hardware support in Fedora than what Ubuntu has.

It would be much more possible if there were actually a superior, or even comparable, product to like or admire. IMO there isn’t. That Canonical doesn’t like to give credit where due or even outright take credit for the work of others, if not allude to such, doesn’t help. They have done a lot to raise awareness of Linux, but I think that’s the extent of their contributions to the FOSS community.

You reminded me though, I actually have 2 good things to say about Ubuntu: it’s not Windows AND it’s not Suse. Suse always felt like a cheap knockoff of RHL to me (note, not RHEL, that’s how long ago I looked at it) along the same lines of Mandriva/Mandrake. I know they say they’re their own thing, but that has to be a line, they were definitely downstream of RedHat 15 years ago. I’m sure they’ve stabilized a bit and fixed a lot of their issues, but then there’s the whole Novell/Microsoft thing and that just turned me off of them outright.

22

Just to throw in some of my personal experience with windows migrants.
Few months ago my brother in law came to me (knowing about my daughters old computer) to borrow it for a short period
while his laptop (with win xp) was in for repair.
At that time I was testing Chakra Eden on it (just to see if it was capable of running it) and decided to leave it on.
Put it together at his place and only had few minutes to explain how to log in,
quickly showed him around the desktop, then left.

The short of it is that after using it for 3 weeks he decided to keep the PC (with Chakra on it) and he does not even want his laptop back.

Now this is a person whom heard about linux but never actually used it and still managed to grasp the concept and just get on with it.
The only further advice given to him was how to keep it updated (as it is a rolling release).

I know people say go with Ubuntu because there is a lot of hand holding,
but other distros are just as capable and just as easy to use.
The problems will start when the tinkering begins.

23
However, I do give credit where it's due in stating that most users coming from Windows use Ubuntu. However, I think a lot of that is just because people tell them "most users coming from Windows use Ubuntu" without giving any other real alternatives - and I do see Fedora as a real alternative.

Agreed, Ubuntu (rightly or wrongly) seemed to reach critical mass before the others … but that fact alone means there are more tutorials available, which in turn gives it more mass … I’m not saying that’s the way it “should” be, just that it’s the way it is.

I don’t actually give Canonical/Ubuntu much credit at all, even for Ubuntu … that credit mainly goes to Debian, the kernel devs, Xorg, Gnome, GNU, etc. … I ONLY give them credit for a bit of polish, and making Linux “slightly” more accessible.

That Canonical doesn't like to give credit where due or even outright take credit for the work of others, if not allude to such, doesn't help. They have done a lot to raise awareness of Linux, but I think that's the extent of their contributions to the FOSS community.

See above, and my rants elsewhere on this forum :wink: … I’d say we agree there too :slight_smile:

You reminded me though, I actually have 2 good things to say about Ubuntu: it's not Windows AND it's not Suse.

Heh … agreed there too :slight_smile:

The major contributing distro’s have always been and as far as I can see will continue to be RH/Fedora, Debian, and though I hate it SUSE.

I could list a ton of other contributors, like IBM, Novell, Google, even Apple, and recently oddly enough Intel and Microsoft (weird but true) but we’d be here all day … on the whole I probably wouldn’t include Canonical/Ubuntu in that list … but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t suggest Ubuntu as probably the “easiest” route into Linux … though they are definitely muddying the waters now with Unity and other stupid changes, so I may not be saying that for much longer :wink:

@SeZo

I don’t dispute there are other distros that are as easy (or easier now that Ubuntu is getting fragmented with all the desktops) to get the general hang of for new users … but that doesn’t change the fact that Ubuntu now has a self perpetuating critical mass that means there are more websites with tutorials, which leads to more users, which leads to more tutorials, and the abundance of PPA’s etc.

As I said above, I’m not suggesting its popularity is deserved, just that it cannot be denied … and that popularity makes it easier to “learn” on … not necessarily easier to immediately pick up and use.

24

The problem we have is a little self-imposed. As there is no money to be had from developing a desktop distribution (cos it’s free!) then it falls to people with lots of money to invest who think they’ll make a return on associated chargeable stuff. Trouble is, they’re not necessarily the “best” people to to be producing the goods, they just happen to be the ones with the money. IMHO this is the root of many of the “questionable” decisions Ubuntu have made … I can’t help looking at some of their mistakes and thinking that if the people making the decisions really knew what they were doing, adoption would’ve been MUCH greater. Certainly over recent releases the number of problems they have “introduced” to long standing users has actually put some long time converts “off” using Linux!!

That said (!) looking at the various distro’s track records, Debian seems to hold the torch, and Ubuntu is the most polished Debian variant.
(Raw Debian is … well … a little ‘raw’)

Over the last few days I’ve installed a few copies of 12.04 server and must say I’ve been pleasantly surprised. Whereas 11.10 was an unholy mess that crucified live servers, 12.04 actually seems to have fixed a number of issues, and to date hasn’t done anything nasty to me, even though it’s still in Beta.

My only 12.04 complaint this far;;

Dear Cannonical, if you’re going to blindly install some new software on my computer, without telling me, then have that software communicate with HQ and send back details of my machine, well, it would be polite to let me know first and give me the chance to opt out!! At the very least it would save me having to scour google for the source code to see what it’s doing just to be sure my systems not been compromised when I spot an unknown process and unexpected network traffic !!!

Did I mention they’ve made a few questionable decisions?

Anyway … Ubuntu, generally does the Job, Fedora, great if you like being a beta tester, Mint, Debian with Green bits and “some” of Ubuntu’s polish, but without it’s politics, OpenSUSE - no comment (!) , CentOS is great for people who don’t like change (!) and Gentoo for people with very fast computers and lots of time on their hands. (have CentOS moved past a 2.6.18 kernel yet?)

There’s a gap in the market here folks for anyone who wants to produce their own desktop distro! :slight_smile:
[I should also mention Knoppix, probably one of the best bootable CD distros…]