Utter Foxtrot Bravo AKA Lets start a linux revolution

Please follow this link http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Computers-Hardware/Utter-Foxtrot-Bravo-AKA-Lets-start-a-linux-revolution/td-p/1169275

If they take it down before anyone can read it, here’s the post;

I have just spent ____ knows how long going round in circles trying to explain that I am extremely dissatisfied with the help that users who run linux based OS’s such as Ubuntu, which I now use and have been using for 6 months now and I am VERY happy with the OS.

What I don’t understand is that Virgin will NOT give support to anyone who uses anything but Window$ (I know there’s MAC but my point is against the support for Window$). I was told that they do NOT have to give tech support to ANYONE but do out of ‘goodwill’ - Yeah, MAINLY Window$. Apparently, we just pay for the service and NOT SUPPORT

I previously asked tech support why they don’t give support for linux OS’s and I was told they’d get SUED. WHAT!

SUED!.. I asked who they asked or would need to ask for ‘permission’ to give support and that’s when they came back with, it’s Open Source and NO-ONE owns the rights to it. If that’s the case, why does it matter WHAT OS is used, ALL software that is comms related HAS TO use the SAME settings. Anyway, WHY would Virgin get SUED!, on WHAT grounds is that allegation based?

Basically Micro$oft Lord $upreme Gate$ey speaks volumes and dictates EVERYTHING. Heck, even a NEW PC is made with Window$ on it, See these sites;

http://en.windows7sins.org/

I want to know WHO i need to write to to get SOMETHING done regarding this matter, heck, even if I have to write to Sir Richard Branson a ketter EVERY week until I get an answer from him.

I bet if he helped fund Canonical with Ubuntu they could give Gate$ey’$ Window$ a run for it’s money and their alliance eventually be the demise of his Window$ monopoly on the PC market, both home and business.

Take a look at this one too…
http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Mobile/Switches-OS-will-the-Broadband-Dongle-work-now/td-p/890785

I was (and now I am again) having problems setting up a Virgin Dongle on my wife’s laptop.

Sued … by who exactly … maybe they think if one of their techs screw up your system they’re afraid YOU may sue them ?

Just sounds like more FUD to me.

Just been to check the thread and have got a reply from someone who actually works for tech support…
I love their reply… TOTAL AND UTTER BIAS against linux and UTTER LOVE for Micro$oft
They make me sick.

Judging by the replies I would deduct that it is not necessarily Virgin but its servants are the stumbling block.
Perhaps they just get too panicky because Windows is all they know… Time to learn to support, not just read scripts.

I’m sure I just saw a Miss Piggy piloting an English Electric Lightning :o

If they feel the need to cut costs by outsourcing support to call centres abroad (and by the responders grasp of English, I assume that’s the case) … what’s the chances of them paying the going rate for someone who actually knows what they’re talking about :wink:

Wont work as I already had that argument with a Complaints Department Supervisor and she said something along the lines of ‘we’re not going to spend money on sending anyone to get trained on linux’

The conversation just ended up going round in circles so I gave up in the end.

Seriously … you’re banging your head against the proverbial brick wall. :o

Linux support will only come when enough people demand it BEFORE signing up … asking for it after you’ve already paid is futile … a sad reflection on capitalism, but that’s the way large corporations work nowadays, once you’re a customer you no longer matter.

You are no longer a member of their “target demographic” … so why should they waste time on you, in their eyes you’re now just a whining customer that they’ve already tied into a contract … the minute you signed the contract you stopped being of any interest to them, and actually became a problem for them to manage as cheaply as they can.

Outside of the PR Dept, the term “valued customer” means nothing to corporate thinking and commodity services … if you want to be “valued” and for the service provider to go out of their way to help, go with the small guy, but expect to pay a little more as his overheads are likely to be higher and he’ll need a larger margin to survive.

BTW, the revolution is already in full swing, and has already been won everywhere except the desktop :slight_smile:

Yeah, tell me about it, I know that now. From what they were telling me, ALL the Virgin employees I spoke to Don’t know sh*** about linux and have that ‘It’s NOT an operating system, it’s a CLI ‘Terminal’ entry system’

BTW, the revolution is already in full swing, and has already been won everywhere except the desktop :)

Then it’s not 100% won, that means the fight must get tougher against Window$

Since leaving Window$ and moving over to a linux distro, my eyes have been opened and I have seen the error of my ways :slight_smile:

I assure you, your need to see Linux exterminate Windows will fade with time as you start to ignore Windows altogether … you’ll stop trying to evangelise Linux, and instead when you see someone using Windows you’ll snigger quietly and get that warm fuzzy feeling from being “in the know” :wink:
(think about it … all the time you were using Windows, the occasional person would walk past you and think “poor blind fool” and carry on their merry way … that’s you now :wink: )

Linux on the desktop is in no hurry … Windows will disappear on its own, without the need for Linux to do or win anything … and whatever replaces it is very likely to be Linux, or something built/forked/developed from Linux … it’s happening right now if you look close enough :wink:

Linux Vs Windows … the “fight” that never was … how can it be considered a “fight” when:-

a) The two development/business models are so different … a bit like the US Army trying to defeat the colour orange.
and
b) The outcome is inevitable … Microsoft will die, all companies do … Linux on the other hand will “evolve” as it’s not market driven.

If there ever was a fight, it was an unfair one from the start … Windows didn’t stand a chance.

I understand where you’re coming from but I fail to see why we should settle for second best, I know you may argue that were NOT settling for second best. What we need is MORE support or even SUPPORT to begin with from the major Companies who give support to Window$. You MAY even argue that we have a better support base than Window$ altogether - linux forums, ran by users for users…

Linux on the desktop is in no hurry .. Windows will disappear on its own, without the need for Linux to do or win anything .. and whatever replaces it is very likely to be Linux, or something built/forked/developed from Linux .. it's happening right now if you look close enough ;)

As I’m only 6 months in to using a linux distro I till have a HUGE amount to learn as I am STILL learning the desktop

Linux Vs Windows .. the "fight" that never was .. how can it be considered a "fight" when:-

a) The two development/business models are so different … a bit like the US Army trying to defeat the colour orange.
and
b) The outcome is inevitable … Microsoft will die, all companies do … Linux on the other hand will “evolve” as it’s not market driven.

If there ever was a fight, it was an unfair one from the start … Windows didn’t stand a chance.

I would love to see the day when (b) finally happens.

As you say, I see nothing “second best” about Linux or its support options … on the other hand, I do consider commodity service providers that *don’t" support Linux as “second best” :o

In the service sector (more than any other, and including Windows support) … you get what you pay for … simple as that.

Lets face it, the whole world is corrupt and money talks…

Dunno about the “whole” world, maybe there’s still some undiscovered tribe in the jungles of the amazon somewhere, but certainly over here … there’s even a word for it … capitalism :slight_smile:

Pooky, let’s be fair here. The whole Linux community would love to see Windows die. I know how you feel, however here’s some insider knowledge for you.

At Virgin, they’re systems run, like Sky & BT, Linux servers. Every not so super “Superhub” runs Linux, the problem is that if they were to get “trained” Linux tech support guys I would cost a ton to pay them, as we Linux guys don’t come cheaply, even if our foundation was built on freeware.

In this day and age, at only aged 18, I’ve come to realise that the world is just ran by a***holes and if you’ve got “deep pockets” then you’ve got the voice to have an opinion.

Believe me, there’s nothing more I want than for more support from co-operate companies but sadly that won’t happen due to Microsofts “affiliate” program.

You see, it wasn’t to long ago that the a**hole that is, Bill Gates (when he actually ran MS) paid companies to NOT use Linux. These were companies like, DELL, ISPs, even McDONALDS!!!

I believe to this day this day Microsoft knows we’re going to be keep our foot in their ass, and we won’t take it out. I remember watching videos on Youtube not to long ago, and it was an interview with Linus, the god that partially created Linux and was named after. In his interview he describes his thoughts on why Linux hasn’t took over the desktop yet and I’ll quote him word for word:

I think the biggest reason why we haven't been successful on the desktop is being it's the HARDEST market to break in to. It's partly because of technical reasons, the technical reasons are, that desktops are pretty much different every other market. They do many different things.

Like when you do a cell phone, or a tablet, even when you have an app store (like with apple)… There’s usually a fairly limited usage. I mean you may have thousands of applications, but you don’t for example, usually connect this thing to hundreds of different devices. I don’t think you can and the desktop space is completely different.

You have to support EVERY single printer that you can go to the store and buy, in the tablet space, no you don’t. In the super-computer space, no you don’t. You support one single printer and YOU TELL the people who’ve paid 10 million dollars for their machine that, “there’s one single printer that works”.

I’m using printers as a stupid example, but the desktop really is a different market where you HAVE TO support these crazy people and the things they do at universities. That literally, they may do some research that no-one else does. They will use the desktop as a kind of workstation. Whereas you have to use modern pop shops, that don’t actually know anything about computers and they’ll just go to a random store and buy hardware or software to do their thing.

The desktop is hard to support because it’s the ONE area, the same piece of hardware and the same operating system have to really support a lot of things. The other thing is, you have a lot of users who don’t necessarily don’t want to use computers at all. I mean, a lot of desktops are used for basically work, but people like using the computer because it makes their work easier but at the same time they’re not REALLY interested in the computer itself. They don’t… don’t… they don’t like me. I LIKE using the computer because it’s a big toy and I can do things with it. says with a cheesy big grin on his face

They just like using the computer to get their work done. So for that kind of person to decide, “Oh want to try another operating system than the one I’m used too.” That’s a big and hard decision.

So people want to do media encoding, and then you’ve got the DRM mess, and then you’ve got all the religion around that. Which just makes it a harder market to break in to.

The good news I think is, to some degree, the market is going down. A lot of people who used to, want to have a desktop, and a lot of people usually do all their work in a web browser. May they can’t use a timeline because they need a keyboard - nice dig a facebook lol - but the wild and varied market for “normal peoples” desktops is kind of going away. Some, not completely. But it’s frightening to the point where people are actually perfectly happy with, basically just a browser and some tools.

And I mean, Google is kind of going after that market with Chrome, and I don’t know if it’s going to succeed, and I don’t know if it’s got to the point just yet. It’s basically just the same thing as a tablet, with a keyboard and for certain usages that’s enough. Then there’s advantages of being single use, part of it is that hardware has to be so cheap that you could consider it a throw away, because you use this piece of hardware for just ONE thing and then if you need to do something else, you have another piece of hardware. That way you have your cell phone AND your tablet AND your Chrome book and that just simply didn’t used to be true before because you wanted to have just ONE computer because that was such a big investment it NEEDED to do everything and things changed.

That change, just means that the traditional desktop becomes less RELEVANT and that makes it really easy for us, before the traditional desktop that does everything is really hard.

I couldn’t care less if Windows dies or not, why should I, I don’t use it … Microsoft on the other hand :wink:

Oh, and can you mind your language in postings please … wouldn’t want to have to delete them :wink:

Personally I don’t give two toss for it, I only use it because Linux has yet to receive better support for media programs. Once that comes along, I will bid Windows fair-well. So for just now, I’m still tied to it.

Language has been edited. :slight_smile:

:slight_smile: … thanks.

pooky,
not sure if aware of the forum but the money saving expert forum has mostly decent individual employees working on there as well as posting like anyone else-as MSE wont let employees visibly work for the company unless they can prove their employment.
virgin is on there though be aware there is a highly infamous tool running a ton of ‘sockpuppets’ on there used for fraud as a so called staff/spokesperson for various businesses,intimidate,spreading bigotism,manipulate,bully,troll and attention seek using the info from vulnerable internet users,it isnt moderated unless someone reports it so it easily gets through.

virgin has always been like that,even when they were NTL and broadband had just started out they admitted they hadnt a clue what linux was.
the residential centre am living in uses the business end of talk talk/opal telecoms for broadband-whenever there have been complex problems with the ridiculous amount of dodgy routers/hardware firewall/broadband booster involved and the IT guy has come out; he hasnt got a clue about linux along with talk talk staff when support staff have rang them for help.
originaly was not allowed access to the internet password for some reason so everytime they messed with the router chain we had to wait days for IT guy to come out and stare wide eyed at the backtrack,kubuntu and freeBSD had had installed at the time-then he woud wander off to the next residents computer; releived that he was facing bloody windows seven.
ended up brute forcing the router for the PW and gave it out to everyone who wanted it to screw the management off . :smiley:

one of the problems am seeing with linux is we do not have enough courses around nor enough places dealing with linux,we need colleges and those community based educational centres dealing with linux to-it doesnt have to be formal courses,informal and formal.

we do need a revolution,at the very least we need to start with a damn sight more awareness in the public eye so people can begin to make more informed decisions about what they use instead of blindly following windows all the time without understanding the consequences and options.

we do not need to remove windows though,it has its place-not only that but its keeping the majority sized group off of linux and unix; imagine what will happen if they joined *nix? we will end up with far more vulnerabilities found and taken advantage of and have another windows situation again where people will despise it because its got more peekaboo holes than a grandads old pair of yfronts. :-X

How very true, we DO need some kind of ‘Awareness’ drive

we do not need to remove windows though,it has its place-not only that but its keeping the majority sized group off of linux and unix; imagine what will happen if they joined *nix? we will end up with far more vulnerabilities found and taken advantage of and have another windows situation again where people will despise it because its got more peekaboo holes than a grandads old pair of yfronts. :-X

Good point there, there are many people who haven’t got the intelligence or know-how to run/use linux/unix who should stay with Micro$oft.